The Interview
by David Rasmussen © December 2008
Bare Back Magazine

Rasmussen: Good evening, please introduce yourself to our readers and
tell us abit about yourself.

My name is Wayne. I was born in California, moved to Taiwan
when I was 5, moved back to California when I was 10.

Rasmussen: Taiwan? How was that? Can you tell us abit about your experience
in Taiwan?

That was a long time ago, so I don't remember much. The main
difference between life in Taiwan and life in USA is the difference in
school. Teachers are much more violent in Taiwan.

Rasmussen: Really... good thing Mr Hong isn't here or I'd be
criticizing him now. Anyway Proposition 8. Set the stage, do you
remember the previous attempts prior to this year's Proposition 8? (I
think I remember there were previous propositions before this one
weren't there?)

There was the Proposition 22, but I haven't heard of it until
Prop 8 came along. I guess that's because prop 22 didn't get nearly as
much media coverage. also, i was only 9 then... wasn't too aware of
politics and social issues

Rasmussen: When did you first become involved in the debate over gay
marriage then? If I may ask?

When I heard of prop 8! Before I heard of prop 8, i knew about
the issue of gay marriage, but I didnt think it was a big deal.

Rasmussen: Why didn't you think it was a big deal prior to Proposition 8?

I wasn't aware of all the legal benefits that married couples
would get. I never thought of gay marriage as an issue of equality

Rasmussen: But once you heard of Proposition 8 your opinion changed,
in what ways?

My change in opinion really has to do with the fact that I
became much more aware of the issue at stake. I realize this is a
matter of equality under the law.

Rasmussen: But it seems that law at times has nothing to do with
equality, the way some laws have been enforced or put into exsistence.
Can there really be equality in law when people are hellbent on doing
the exact opposite?

There definitely can be equality under the law. While there are
people fighting hard to put discrimination into the law, history shows
that they are losing the battle. Just 8 years ago, prop22 was passed
with 61% in favor. This time, the similar proposition, prop8, passed
only by 52% in favor. This shows that people are evolving in the way
they look at gay marriage and equality.

Rasmussen: For those of us who are not aware of it past what we've
heard on the news, can you tell us who brought forth Proposition 8
this year, and why they felt they had to hate their fellow man/woman
by seeing such a proposition passed? Or am I wrong on the hate part?

The official campaign for prop 8 is an organization's website
is "". They don't use the word "hate" to justify
their opposition to gay marriage however, their main argument is that
children would be taught about gay marriage in schools. Their
spokeswoman went on the o'reily show, saying that she fully
supports gay couples, and claims that prop8's main intention is to
protect the children.

Rasmussen: That's an oft whine from those kind of people (allegedly),
and who really watches the Billo the Clown show anyway. Still, the
whole protect the children thing... how is children harmed by people
being allowed to live their lives and marry? That's what I'd like to

I am a little confused too. It is said that children have the
right to have both a mother and a father. But of course, gay couples
can adopt regardless of whether they can get married. Another thing
the "Yes on 8" campaign has been saying is that children in school
will be taught that gay marriage is the same as straight marriage and
this teaching would go against their parents' moral values One big
argument has been whether the parents can opt their children out if
gay marriage really is taught in school.

Rasmussen: Is that a realisitic arguement though? Would it really be
such an issue if gay marriage was taught in school? (... sorry, I
haven't been in high school in forever, what class teaches about
marriage again? Social Studies?)

Not high school, we are talking about elementary school, but
Prop 8 supporters claim that children as young as kindergartners would
also be taught about gay marriage.

Rasmussen: ...gee, I was taught about sleeping in kindergarten (which
is why I wanted to go to First Grade real fast)...

Haha.. indeed, we slept a lot in kindergarten..

Rasmussen: Don't those for Proposition 8 also hate the teaching of
sex, evolution, what the christians did to third world countries
hundreds of years ago, and lack of bible studies in school?

A large majority of prop 8 supporters are indeed Republicans...
so they naturally have conservative views. One interesting fact that
exemplifies this is the position of Obama and Mccain are Prop 8. they
both have said they believe marriage should be kept between man and
woman, yet Obama is against Prop 8, while Mccain is for Prop 8.

Rasmussen: Speaking of which, in the intro to the Facebook page you
represent (oh, please tell us briefly about the page so our readers
can find it)

Anyway while we're on the subject of the intro, the intro says that
Proposition 8 is about "destroying the foundation" of what the
California Constitution stands for. Can you be
more specific about it for our readers, and what defense pro Prop. 8
supporters have against that charge?

Wayne: I am admin of a Facebook group titled "1,000,000 Million Strong Against Newly
Passed Prop 8".  I did not create the group though. I
contacted the creator offering my help and he has agreed to put me
onto the team. I have been in charge of updating news. I have also
written the group description.

I wrote that proposition 8 destroys the foundation of our constitution
because our constitution is meant to protect the minorities from mob
rule. It is because we have a constitution, that everyone is
guaranteed to have equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law
by the equal protection clause. Prop8 is essential unconstitutional as
it allows people to put up a minority's rights up to vote. That is
just wrong.

Rasmussen: But what is the counter arguement by pro Prop 8 supporters?
How do they defend their stance that it does not violate the
California Constitution (and isn't whatever constitutional and
unconstitutional basically whatever those in power say at times over
what is written?)

Prop 8 supporters don't believe that the equal protection
clause protects the LGBT community. It is said that the clause
protects racial and gender minority, but not sexual orientation.

Rasmussen: Bringing up another arguement of theirs, that their doctorone
makes it a sin to be gay, correct?.

ya... and this is why they don't believe prop 8 is unconstitutional.
because they classify gay people as criminals basically.

Rasmussen: Because they believe homosexuality is a sin (one of quite a few
things they see as sins).

not exactly, but they see homosexualy like a disease a mental
disorder or something and therefore, they should not be protected
under the equal protection clause me: I've heard about that, their pledges to "cure"
people of homosexuality (if only to make themselves feel better).

Rasmussen: So then... does that make tensions between the religious
and gay community rather strained with Proposition 8 and the protests
that sprung from it?

of course. there is a strong opposition of the mormon church
especially. i seen people rallying others to petition against mormon's
tax exempt status however the official no on 8 campaign released a
statement asking everyone to not single out any group of people to
blame one. instead, the no on 8 campaign ask all its supporters to
reach out to them instead.

Rasmussen: But a few incidents have occured (like the graffiting of a
church with the words "No On 8". What is the campaigns stance on these
incidents? Also is there any concern that continued rallys would
eventually turn people off (much like how people became frustrated by
pro illegal immigration rallys after awhile?)

The yes on 8 campaign hasnt released any statements yet
regarding the rallies, but the no on 8 campaign released a statement
that seems to request people to resort to peaceful protests, instead
of the angry ones directed at churches. I am afraid actually that the
attacks from the no on 8 protests would do more harm than good. i saw
on tv a news reporter focusing on a guy attacking an old lady holding
a cross during a no on 8 campaign. i think that definitely didn't help
the protest.

Rasmussen: Is there a concern that eventually patience on either side
will evaporate, and violence will eventually occur? Can both sides be
kept civil even as confrontations between both groups continue on with
each rally that is assembled?

There hasn't been any yes on 8 rallies after prop8 has passed.
So far, this has just been one side protesting, for now, the prop8
supporters are probably sitting at home enjoying their success, while
watching prop 8 opponents out on the streets protesting. I don't
believe the prop 8 opponents are going to resort to violence of prop 8
doesn't get reversed soon. Gay marriage has been illegal for most of
the history of california, and gay couples are probably used to it.

Rasmussen: What of the three legal challenges. What is the present
situation on those and are there any real expectations that they can
somehow overturn Prop 8?

Wayne: The three legal challenges are filed by ACLU, a few cities
including san francisco, and a lawyer named Gloria Allred. The
spokeswoman of the CA supreme court nov10 said they could rule as
early as this week on those lawsuits. The legal experts are saying
that it is unlikely it would be overturned in court, but the lawsuits
are backed by prominent figures such as Nancy Pelosi and Arnold
Schwarzenegger, and also by 44 lawmakers from california.

Rasmussen: So the odds are stacked against overturning Prop 8 then?

I honestly don't know. I am not a law student. But there are
reasons both scenarios.

Rasmussen: OK then, since even Schwarzenegger seems to be against the
gay community do you see a future scenario where the new Obama
administration overturns Prop. 8 (for example)?

hold on. Schwarzenegger is against prop 8 as well, and supports
the lawsuits for invalidating prop 8. as for the obama administration,
barrack obama will likely to appoint
more liberal judges to the US supreme court, which is helpful.

Rasmussen: I have not heard that arguement. I have heard it that he's
been backing his Republican pals and voting against gay marriage time
and again.

That is correct, but he has changed his stance.

Rasmussen: Really? That's new to me. When did that happen?

I think he changed his stance when prop 8 came along. but he
has been speaking very publicly against prop 8, and i heard him oppose
it with my own eyes and ears on youtube. the no on 8 campaign also
used him in one of the campaign advertisement

Rasmussen: So then with Schwarzenegger's help will that mean a turning
of the tide against Prop 8?

He has been against prop 8 ever since the CA supreme court
invalidated prop22, so i am afraid his opposition didn't help

Rasmussen: Thought so. Is his sudden change of heart, in your opinion,
honest or is there a political reason for his sudden change of heart?

I think it is honest. There are no political reasons to be
oppose of prop 8 when it is clear that the majority of americans are
against gay marriage.

Rasmussen: Strange though, they were against gay marriage this
election but for the lowering of marijuna as a criminal offense... why
is that? (Gay marriage = bad, while lowered drug enforcement = good?)

I see the two as two very different issues, I don't think there
can be a connection made.

Rasmussen: Hypothetical - Prop. 8 is repealed, does this mean
California's gay community is going to turn their efforts to helping
the other states who passed anti gay marriage bans?
Hawaii has a ban too, nobody remembers that but they passed a ban here
years ago.

Hawaii doesn't actually have a ban, their constitution allows
the banning of gay marriage, but doesn't said it has to be banned.
Hawaii is a special case. As for other states, I am not sure the CA
gay community can do much. There are gay rights organizations already
in every state working hard. I think if CA does legalize gay marriage,
it would help the other states to progress by setting an example for

Rasmussen: But two states have already legalized gay marriage, yet
things still move incredibly slowly. How many states (or what specific
states) do you see has to pass gay marriage rights before it begins to
really pick up speed?

I think it's relatively fast actually. USA was founded more
than 200 years ago, and within 4 years that Massachusettes legalize
gay marriage in 2004, CA and Connecticut legalized gay marriage too.

Rasmussen: But it was overturned in California... or do you think
before 2012 it will be reinstated again?

whether it will be reinstated before 2012 is going to depend on
the court ruling, but i am confident it will be legalized again in
2012 if a new proposition is put up to vote seeing in reverse prop 8.
seeking in

Rasmussen: In closing then, do you think we'll live long enough to see
a full realization of gay marriage rights in all of America in our
lifetimes? (As Keith Olberman said it isn't about anger, politics or
religion but about love for your fellow man?)

It will probably be extremely unlikely to see other states to
legalize gay marriage one state at a time the way we are seeing now
because of the opinion polls in other states ranging from 60 to 80%
against gay marriage, but one possible scenario is for prop8 to go
into the US supreme court and a decision was made by the court that
gay marriage should be legalized. Such a decision would force all
states to legalize gay marriage as well. I hope we will see a "lgbt
civil rights movement version" of the supreme court case "brown vs
education board" which made segregation illegal across the country.

Rasmussen: Any final words for our readers? And, just for fun, yaoi or yuri?

I like to tell everyone how exciting it is that we are part of
the lgbt civil rights movement. we have missed the movement of woman
and the african americans, but for the lgbt, there is still a long way
to go. i hope we can all fight hard for the lgbt community.
and........ i like both yaoi and yuri

Comments On Proposition 8?
The Debate over
Proposition 8,
an interview with Wayne C.
From 1,000,000 Million Strong Against Newly
Passed Prop 8
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Please contact the authors if you'd like to reprint articles on this site.  All copyrights are retained by original authors
If you haven't heard, in a nutshell, Proposition 8 is one of a fistful of anti-gay marriage
propositions passed this past election season. Sure, we could do it by electing
Barack Obama as our 44th President… then we couldn't do it when we let hate and
homophobia win out over love. Great going, voters, nice job. Anyway what is
Proposition 8 (out of California) and what is No On Prop 8? Let's find out together!